PENSION AWARENESS VIDEO SCRIPT
[LOGO]: FSRA & Ontario COA

[INTRO SLATE:] Make financial decisions with confidence.
[INTRO SLATE:] Let us show you how.

[VO:] Saving for retirement is usually not top of mind in the hustle and bustle of our day to day lives. We all face so many competing financial demands – saving for a car, a condo, or a house, starting a family, saving for that vacation or our children’s education.

[SUPER:] Caroline Blouin
[SUPER:] Executive Vice President, Financial Services Regulatory Authority (FSRA)

[SLATE:] Value of a Pension

[VO:] Pensions can be such a valuable way to help you save for the future, but they can also be complicated, even a tad intimidating.
[VO:] Each year in February, through our Pension Awareness Day, we will raise awareness about how participating in the pension plan can be beneficial to you and your family.

[SUPER:] Pension Awareness Day

[VO:] Did you know that many employers offer a pension plan as part of their total compensation package? Think of a pension plan as deferred compensation – it’s money set aside today to help you build income for retirement.

[SUPER:] Deferred Compensation

[SLATE:] Pension Plan at Work

[VO:] Find out today if you have a pension plan at work. And if you do have a pension plan, don’t delay! Act now and join your plan. Your pension plan can be worth thousands of dollars!

[SUPER:] Join Your Plan

[VO:] And, if your employer offers matching contributions to your pension plan, look into taking full advantage of those matching contributions. That way, you can maximize the amount of money that goes into your retirement account.

[SUPER:] Matching Contributions
[SUPER:] Maximize

[VO:] Now keep in mind, the pension plan at your workplace will complement the pension income you will receive from the Government through the Canada Pension Plan and Old Age Security and of course whatever other personal savings you may have.

[SUPER:] Canada Pension Plan
[SUPER:] Old Age Security

[VO:] By law, your employer is required to provide you with an annual pension statement. That statement is important, I encourage you to read it and understand it. Ask questions. Talk to a qualified financial planner. The more you know, the more likely you are to achieve your retirement goals.

[SUPER:] Annual Pension Statement
[SUPER:] Ask Questions
[SUPER:] Qualified Financial Planner
[SUPER:] Achieve Your Retirement Goals

[OUTRO SLATE:] An educated consumer is a smart consumer.
[OUTRO SLATE:] Learn what questions to ask
[VO:] Explore our website for more information, helpful links, and resources.
[SUPER:] FSRAO.CA
[SUPER:] 1-800-668-0128 (TTY 1-800-387-0584)

[VO:] And remember, FSRA is here for you.

[TAGLINE:] Putting your interests first

[END SLATE:] FSRA Logo & Ontario COA

PENSION AWARENESS (EMPLOYERS) VIDEO SCRIPT
[LOGO]: FSRA & Ontario COA

[INTRO SLATE:] Make financial decisions with confidence.
[INTRO SLATE:] Let us show you how.

[VO:] Trust matters in pensions because pensions are part of your compensation package. So, we have salaries that we get every two weeks or once a month, every week. And then, some employers offer a pension plan. And that’s really deferred compensation that is set aside in a trust, separate and apart from the company for the future. Employees put their trust in their employers, their trust in the system that the employer will be able to deliver on the pensions they promised to their employees. So, it’s really important that people understand their benefits, and that the benefit is there when they retire to provide income for themselves and their family.

[SUPER:] Caroline Blouin
[SUPER:] Executive Vice President, Financial Services Regulatory Authority (FSRA)

[SUPER:] Pensions are an Investment in Your Future
[SUPER:} Understand Your Benefits

[SLATE:] Employer Advice to Consider

[VO:] If you are an employer, get the most out of your pension plan. The benefits you provide are a valuable component of your employment value proposition. I encourage you to educate your employees about the value of their pension, so they can build a more secure financial future.

[SUPER:] Employment Value Proposition
[SUPER:] A More Secure Financial Future

[OUTRO SLATE:] An educated consumer is a smart consumer.
[OUTRO SLATE:] Learn what questions to ask
[VO:] Explore our website for more information, helpful links, and resources.
[SUPER:] FSRAO.CA
[SUPER:] 1-800-668-0128 (TTY 1-800-387-0584)

[VO:] And remember, FSRA is here for you.

[TAGLINE:] Putting your interests first

[END SLATE:] FSRA Logo & Ontario COA

Pre-Intro Teaser

My only advice to people: get as much information as possible. It's worth it. Because if you think about it, the retirement is about one-third of your adult life at the current longevity. Get as much information as possible, be financial savvy.

Intro – Caroline Blouin

Welcome to the Pension Savvy podcast. I'm Caroline Blouin, Executive Vice President at FSRA, the Financial Services Regulatory Authority of Ontario. The Pension Savvy podcasts are conversations with pension experts where we debunk common myths and share tips to enable you to live well today and tomorrow.

Caroline Blouin

With me today is the wonderful Assia Billig, Chief Actuary at OSFI, the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions. In this role, Assia prepares actuarial reports of the Canada Pension Plan, Old Age Security, as well as other public sector pension plans. Welcome, Assia.

Assia Billig

Thank you, Caroline. Thank you very much for inviting me to participate in this wonderful initiative.

Caroline Blouin

Oh, thank you. It's such a pleasure to have you with us, Assia. Maybe the first question would be what is an actuary,? Assia

Assia Billig

Oh, my God. I was not prepared for this one. I think actuaries in the modern world is a person who really trying to look at risks. Looking at risks combines both mathematical skills, they will have a look in the past, as well as, I should say, a little bit of futurist skills, like how the future can change, and the future change, what it will look like.

Assia Billig

I think we all saw from 2020 to 2022 that the future can be quite unpredictable. We saw probably so many extreme events over these three years that we didn't see for several decades before that. As a result, the way I see it, for us as an actuary, is more and more important to looking to future and not truly rely on the past. The judgment for us is becoming really important. To say it really briefly; work with risks, assess past, and predict future.

Caroline Blouin

I love it. I love how you said in the modern day because I was really quite fascinated as to where defined benefit pension plan arose. I went back through history and found out that the concept dates back to the Roman Empire, which is fascinating.

Assia Billig

Really?

Caroline Blouin

The concept has existed for thousands of years.

Assia Billig

Yeah, but if you think about it, it's very basic concept, the concept of insurance. You pool your resources to create pool of risks. This resource pooling can help mitigate, how long you live, what is the future inflations, and so on.

Caroline Blouin

This brings us to your job right now, pooling of risk. You are pulling the lives, the Canadian lives, to form the Canada Pension Plan. What are some of the misconceptions about the Canada Pension Plan?

Assia Billig

I think the largest misconception about the Canada Pension Plan is that will not be there for people when they will retire. That's actually very interesting because this originating in 1997, actually, in the time when Canada went through probably one of the most successful world reform of the social security, which was really fascinating. They'll probably talk about that a little bit later. The second misconception is that what you pay a payroll taxes, and the government can take this payroll taxes and spend it, which is actually not true.

Caroline Blouin

Where do these payroll taxes go?

Assia Billig

They're not payroll taxes. They're contributions.

Caroline Blouin

Okay. Thank you for correcting me.

Assia Billig

They are pension contributions. I think this term came from United States when they consider social security contribution payroll taxes. In Canada for the Canada Pension Plan, you and your employer pay pension contributions, the same as you and your employer will pay pension contribution, your DB or DC plan, Defined-Benefit or Defined-Contribution plan.

Assia Billig

Where these contributions goes? First, they're used to pay benefits for the current beneficiaries. Then, if there is any excess, they go to the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board, which invests this contribution on the market. In Canada, interesting fact that after 1997 reform, at this point, the contribution rate stayed unchanged for 20 years. All this time, this money were invested in the market.

Assia Billig

If you will go on the website of the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board, you'll see a lot of information. But what you will probably see right away that the current fund is about $500 billion. It's half a trillion dollars. Just think about the magnitude of this number.

Assia Billig

What is also very interesting that this fund is completely arm length from the government. It has its own legislation, and it hasn't on mandate, which is spelled in the legislation. As a result, government cannot use this money to pay any expenditures.

Caroline Blouin

I'm so glad that the government has you as well. You have a very big responsibility with respect to the Canada Pension Plan. Being the Chief Actuary and performing the valuations for the Canada Pension Plan, can you tell us a little bit more about what you're seeing, what your perspectives are, and what your outlook on the future is.

Assia Billig

I'll be pleased to. First of all, allow me to give a shout-out to my office. I'm not the only one who is working on the valuations. I have a group of very highly professional, dedicated team members who are doing a wonderful job.

Assia Billig

The difference of Canada Pension Plan from, for example, the Defined-Benefit pension plan, that will work with the whole country. As you can see, we have real huge risk pooling. Because of that, when we look at the actuarial valuation, we need to look at not only the economic variables, for example, what are the investments, or how the salary increase.

Assia Billig

Very interestingly, we need to look at the demographic. For pension, actually, normally, demography is just mortality. How long people will live and how long they will receive their pension?

Assia Billig

For us, it's much more. For us, it's how the Canadian population will evolve. It means what are the fertility rates? How many children women are having in Canada? What are their migration rates? How many people are coming to Canada?

Assia Billig

Because these people are potential contributors to the pension plan and eventually will draw benefits. This is a huge chunk of our work, just working with the demography.

Assia Billig

But of course, we also look at the economy. Once again, for us, we're trying to take the more holistic view because we need to look at how GDP will evolve in the future. Evolvement of GDP will impact the labor market. It will impact inflation. Actually, they're all interrelated. As well as how the salaries will grow, how their earnings will grow.

Assia Billig

This is our framework on the domestic side, but thanks to the CPPIB. CPPIB invests internationally all around the world.

Caroline Blouin

For our listeners, CPPIB is the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board.

Assia Billig

Canada Pension Plan Investment Board. Sorry.

Caroline Blouin

That's okay.

Assia Billig

They invest internationally. Their investments are all around the world. To develop our assumptions about the future, what we really need to do, we need to look at the all-world market. This is what distinguishes us. What keeps me up at night in the development?

Assia Billig

Canadian population is aging. Aging is not only because people will live longer, which are actually very good news, but we're having less and less babies. If you look at the projection of the growth of the Canadian population, you will see that very soon, the growth of the Canadian population will come fully from immigration. This is why immigration is a very important factor for Canada future.

Caroline Blouin

Let's go back to the actuarial report for the Canada Pension Plan. What does it say? Are we in good shape?

Assia Billig

We are.

Caroline Blouin

That's great.

Assia Billig

We are. Actually, the last report was prepared at the end of December 2022. It was tabled in parliament. It's important to see that the Canada Pension Plan is reviewed by 11 ministries of finance, 10 provinces, including Québec, and federal every three years. It's called Financial Review.

Assia Billig

The first year of Financial Review is when we prepare our report. After that, the next two years, the ministers and their designated officials will look at the report and look what's going on in Canadian society and make decisions if any changes are needed to the plan.

Assia Billig

We just sent report to the minister at the end of 2022, it was tabled in Parliament. Now, the officials will start looking at the plan. What I should say is that Canada probably has one of the most robust governance system in respect to the Canada Pension Plan.

Caroline Blouin

In the world.

Assia Billig

In their world, yes. First of all, everything related to the actuarial report is extremely transparent. Everything is published on our website. Its www.osfi.ca. You can go under the heading Office of Chief Actuary, and you will find there all our reports.

Assia Billig

For those people who are not really good with the numbers, we are publishing now a two-pager, which is really an infographic which can give you all the necessary facts at a glance.

Caroline Blouin

What are some key facts that you can share with us?

Assia Billig

Key facts, let me tell you. Today, we have about 15.2 million of contributors to the Canada Pension Plan. We're paying about 6 million benefits to just retirement benefits. Keep in mind, the Canada Pension Plan also provides disability and survivor benefits.

Assia Billig

In dollar amount, we're receiving every year about 64 billion of contributions. We're paying about 62 billion of benefits.

Caroline Blouin

What is the oldest beneficiary?

Assia Billig

Oh, my God. Probably close to 100, I should say.

Caroline Blouin

Wow. That's great.

Assia Billig

This is on facts. Of course, this all is expected to grow. The legislated contribution rate to the Canada Pension Plan at this point 9.9%. I will not go into a lot of details, there is an additional plan, but let's make it simple. The rate that we calculate is below 9.9, which means for the next 75 years, we're saying that the plan is sustainable.

Caroline Blouin

This is so important because like you, the question I hear the most frequently is, "Will the CPP, the Canada Pension Plan, be there for me when I retire?"

Assia Billig

It will.

Caroline Blouin

It will. This is very affirmative. I wish you could all see her eyes. She's the Chief Actuary of the Canada Pension Plan, and it's sustainable for 75 years.

Assia Billig

Over just for 75. Our work is reviewed by an independent panel of actuaries. We engage the Government Actuary Department of UK to rank the applicants. It's a transparent process. We ask actuaries, Canadian and American actuaries and UK actuaries, to apply.

Assia Billig

Then they meet with us. The goal was to find calm from all our assumptions. We having two or three days of extremely fruitful discussions. Then their report is publicly available. Once again, it's published, so everyone can look at it. Over the years, these reviews produced a lot of recommendations for us and we implemented a lot of recommendations.

Assia Billig

But what is important for me as the Chief Actuary of our office that we get this independent level of professional oversight because, as you see, it's a huge responsibility.

Caroline Blouin

It's huge.

Assia Billig

It's the future of several generations of Canadians. We're all humans. We all do mistakes. We don't have crystal balls. I'm sleeping much more sounder by knowing that the good professionals, very high-level professionals, have a look at our work.

Caroline Blouin

It's amazing. What a level of reassurance today. There's so many independent checkpoints as well. The investments are looked at completely separately from your office. There's independence from the government, but yet, a review across all the provinces and the federal governments, then you also get a completely independent review. There's a lot of checks and balances in the system.

Assia Billig

It is. Let me give you one more. Of course, the Canada Pension Plan is a living plan. It's changed sometimes. But to make changes to the plan, the legislation requires the agreement of two-thirds of the provinces that cover at least two-thirds of the Canadian population. So it's really not easy to make a change.

Assia Billig

For example, Ontario, with current population of 40% of the Canadian population, has a veto over any changes. It's really forces the stewards to work together. If the changes is made, we, by legislation, need to prepare an additional actuarial report, which will go to the parliament, once again, quantifying all the cost of this change.

Caroline Blouin

A lot of prudence.

Assia Billig

A lot of prudence, a lot of prudence.

Caroline Blouin

Let's dive a little bit more at the individual level. What is the maximum benefit that one can hope to receive from the Canada Pension Plan?

Assia Billig

It depends when you take your retirement, actually. If you take your retirement today at age 65, it's about 15,000 per year. You can start your pension as early as age 60, and your pension will be reduced, or you can start your pension as late as age 70, and that it will be increased.

Caroline Blouin

What should someone do? Should they plan to take the Canada Pension Plan early or should they defer to age 70?

Assia Billig

My only advice to people: get as much information as possible. It's worth it. Because if you think about it, the retirement is about one-third of your adult life at the current longevity. Get as much information as possible, be financial savvy.This series of podcasts is a great example of that. Get the estimate of your Canada Pension Plan.

Assia Billig

You can ask from, I think it's called, my service account. You can ask for the statement of your CPP contributions and then they will give you an estimate how much CPP you're going to get. There is a great calculators. Use all information available to you.

Assia Billig

Now, for the young people who are so technically savvy and financially savvy, just make sure you don't forget about your future retirement planning. Because of course, when you're young, you want to travel, you want to party, then you start having kids, you start to have a mortgage. Your priority will change. That's totally understandable.

Assia Billig

At some point of your life, you'll probably will not save, but it's never too late to start saving. Just make sure you don't forget about this very important part of your future, the retirement. I should say that Canada Pension Plan, if you worked, and all this security, will provide you with the safety net. You will not starve.

Caroline Blouin

Both of these programs are inflation-protected.

Assia Billig

Yes. It's very important. For example, this year, we will see this as of January 1, 2023, the pension are indexed by more than 6%.

Caroline Blouin

Incredible.

Assia Billig

Can you imagine? Not only inflation-protected, is longevity-protected. You can't outlive your savings. With Old Age Security after age 65, actually, your pension is increasing by 10%. To take into account that after age 75, you are less likely be able to work. There's a very, very good safety net in Canada.

Caroline Blouin

This is a guaranteed inflation protection.

Assia Billig

Yes, it's a guaranteed-

Caroline Blouin

It cannot be taken away, right?

Assia Billig

It can be reduced for Canada Pension Plan in some extreme situations-

Caroline Blouin

I see.

Assia Billig

-just to make sure that plan is preserved for future generation. But at this point of time, these provisions were never applied and we all hope they will never apply again. This is why we have trained a review process. This is why the governments, with our help, always is looking what is going on with financial stability of the plan, so the benefits are protected, and that each generation doesn't overpay and will get benefits.

Caroline Blouin

Now, Assia, let's go back to you as the Chief Actuary for the Canada Pension Plan and Old Age Security. What are you most proud of?

Assia Billig

I think I am the most proud that I was the part of the introduction of the additional CPP. That happened several years ago. This was an amazing project to work on. It was an amazing experience to see how all governments came together again to do that. This is what I am extremely proud of.

Assia Billig

On a personal level, I am very proud that being a first-generation immigrant who came in Canada at age 26, I was able to develop into my role.

Caroline Blouin

Yes. One of the most important role in the actuarial field, nonetheless, so it's great to have you. It's great to have you.

Assia Billig

While still being able to raise two wonderful sons and being there for my family.

Caroline Blouin

Giving back to the community.

Assia Billig

Yes, exactly.

Caroline Blouin

Yes. Let's go back to you, coming to Canada when you were 26 years old and you've worked hard to get to where you are. What do you wish you had known when you first came to Canada?

Assia Billig

First of all, Canadians are very open-minded and very accepting people. So don't be shy. They always will help you. Don't let your accent to hold you back, because for me, for many, many years, I was so self-conscious about my accent.

Caroline Blouin

It's so lovely. It's a lovely accent.

Assia Billig

But this is what we do. Also, as a woman, we tend to always have a little bit of imposter syndrome. Don't have it. You're smart. You're probably very often one of the smartest people in the room. Ask questions, share ideas. If you will not do it, somebody do it for you. So do it.

Caroline Blouin

Are there any questions I haven't asked that you wish I would have asked or you want people to know about either the CPP, Old Age Security, your role?

Assia Billig

I think we've covered a lot of ground. I just would like to conclude saying that how proud I am of the Canadian retirement income system, how well it's recognized, and how around the world, we're very often asked to talk to different countries about the success of the CPP. It's very, very well-known around the world.

Assia Billig

I also should say that the work that are done by my colleagues for the Québec Pension Plan and for our office is also very well-recognized both in Canada and around the world. We're very often on the forefront of the actuarial science and the actuarial reporting, I should say.

Caroline Blouin

That is wonderful. What recognition. Tell me a little bit more. This is so exciting that other countries are really looking to you and your team and our system to emulate the practices that you've developed.

Assia Billig

I think our system was one of the first one that introduced such huge social security fund to the extent that it's grew up to half trillion dollars. It's something that was not really very well done before. Our colleagues, south of the border, they still have, for investment, this national bonds. They're not investing on their markets.

Assia Billig

Sometimes they ask me, "What are the pros and cons?" This is very gratifying to discuss with them. I'm succeeding the list of great Chief Actuaries who did a lot to promote and inform different stakeholders, both in Canada and around the world, about the Canada Pension Plan, about the Old Age Security and their work that we're doing.

Caroline Blouin

That's great. This was a wonderful conversation, Assia. Thank you so much for spending this time with me and our listeners. I am certain that people learned a lot from our conversations and super reassuring to know that the Canada Pension Plan is sustainable for the next 75 years.

Assia Billig

Thank you very much, Caroline, for having me. It's my great pleasure to participate in this wonderful financial literacy initiative.

Caroline Blouin

Thank you. Again, we will post all of the resources that were mentioned in this podcast and all of our podcasts on our website at www.fsrao.ca/PensionAwareness.

Outro – Caroline Blouin

To our listeners, if you liked today's episode, please remember to share the podcast with friends and family. To learn more about today's topic, visit us at www.fsrao.ca/PensionAwareness.

Pre-Intro Teaser

There's a lot of evidence that shows that employees value workplace retirement plans highly. It's an important factor in the decision about what jobs to take. It's also an important factor in retaining employees.

Intro – Caroline Blouin

Welcome to the Pension Savvy podcast. I'm Caroline Blouin, Executive Vice President at FSRA, the Financial Services Regulatory Authority of Ontario. The Pension Savvy podcast are conversations with pension experts where we debunk common myths and share tips to enable you to live well today and tomorrow.

Caroline Blouin

I am delighted to have with me three very special guests today for our podcast. Let me introduce you first to Rachel Arbour, Vice President, Plan and Policy Development at the Healthcare of Ontario Pension Plan, also known as HOOPP. HOOPP is the pension plan for Ontario's healthcare community and serves over 420,000 members. Hello, Rachel.

Rachel Arbour

Hello.

Caroline Blouin

Next is Celine Chiovitti, Executive Vice President and Head of Pensions at Ontario Municipal Employees Retirement System, also known as OMERS. OMERS is the pension plan for municipal employees in Ontario and serves over 540,000 members. Good morning, Celine.

Celine Chiovitti

Hello, Caroline.

Caroline Blouin

My third guest is Alex Mazer. Alex is the co-founder and CEO of Common Wealth. Common Wealth is a mission-driven financial technology company focused on serving those not covered by a workplace retirement plan. They've created the first retirement program for physicians in Canada, and the Common Wealth plans have received multiple awards for their innovative design. Welcome, Alex.

Alex Mazer

Thank you. Great to be here.

Caroline Blouin

Thank you so much for joining me today and sharing your passion about what you do. Now, let's start with the HOOPP Collaboration with the Common Wealth. I know you've collaborated on a number of research projects. In 2021, you actually published a report called The Business Case for Good Workplace Retirement Plans. Now, Alex, can you tell me a little bit more about what the business case is and what are the elements of the business case?

Alex Mazer

In the research that we did together with HOOPP, we were trying to quantify, if we could, the business case for good retirement plans. We came up with a four-part framework for looking at that value. The first part of that framework was what we call compensation efficiency. This is really the idea that if you provide a good retirement plan for your workers, it frees up after-tax and take-home pay for them to spend on other things because it's a more efficient vehicle for turning savings into retirement income. It's a very efficient way of compensating your people. That's the first part.

Alex Mazer

The second part is around attraction and retention. There's a lot of evidence that shows that employees value workplace retirement plans highly. It's an important factor in the decision about what jobs to take. It's also an important factor in retaining employees. There's a lot of data that shows that when an employer provides a workplace retirement plan, it increases retention and reduces the cost of turnover. That's the second part.

Alex Mazer

The third part is around financial stress and worker productivity. There's been a lot of research that shows that when employees are financially stressed, it makes them less productive at work. Also that workplace retirement plans are an effective way of reducing that stress because you're helping people build savings, which allows them to focus on their work rather than on living paycheck to paycheck in their financial situation.

Alex Mazer

Then the fourth part of the business case was really an emerging thing, which is around ESG considerations. We think that as ESG, environmental, social and governance factors become a more important factor in the economy, investors and others are going to pay more attention to the kinds of workplace savings and retirement arrangements that employers provide, and it may give them a competitive advantage in the economy.

Caroline Blouin

Yeah. There's the link to the ESG factors as well in being a good social corporate citizen. Now, with talent attraction and retention being such a key issue in the market right now, are you seeing renewed interest towards workplace retirement plans?

Alex Mazer

We are. We started to see that a couple of years ago as the labor market started to tighten up. We're seeing companies that are both smaller than you would have expected in the past to be interested in a workplace retirement plan, and also companies in different sectors. I would say that five or 10 years ago, it would be unusual for a tech startup to say that introducing a retirement benefits package would be an important HR priority. That's now shifted, and it's starting to be almost table stakes for employers, say, in that sector that want to be competitive.

Alex Mazer

We're seeing employers from services businesses to blue-collar workplaces to tech firms looking and introducing a retirement benefit for the first time. That's our specialty of trying to cover those workplaces, small and medium employers that don't have a plan today, non-profits.

Alex Mazer

The main reason they're doing that is the talent search that many of them are struggling with it. The surveys consistently show that for small businesses, for small employers, finding and keeping the best talent is one of their top preoccupations. That's not something we don't think is going away, despite the economic uncertainty that we're seeing in the coming year.

Caroline Blouin

Well, that's great. This ties in nicely with the research that OMERS did actually. Just making the tie to the social value of offering a pension plan. At OMERS, Celine, you've been offering this defined benefit plan to municipal employees for decades, and it's highly valued. In your research, you found that 50% are more likely to report higher satisfaction with life than people who do not participate in a pension plan. The value goes far beyond the financial security. I wonder if you can just give me a little bit of insights about the findings in the report and what surprised you.

Celine Chiovitti

Of course. I think, let me talk a bit about the research itself first. We set out, essentially, to your point, to really look at the value that OMERS brings to communities across Ontario outside of the pension pay itself. We commissioned [inaudible 00:08:44], who's a third-party independent research firm, to help us. We asked them to look basically at two components. One is the economic impact. Outside of just the pensions we pay, what's the value that we bring across Ontario from an economic perspective?

Celine Chiovitti

Then the second element was, to your point, a bit more about life satisfaction, which is not quite as tangible as others. The information was quite insightful. From an economic perspective, [inaudible 00:09:13] was able to demonstrate that based on the dollars that we invest directly in Ontario and the pensions that are paid to about 200,000 retirees that then go back into the economy, it equates to about $12 billion worth of GDP, creating about 112,000 different jobs across Ontario and essentially linking one in every 11 households relies in some way on the pensions that we pay and invest in Ontario. Again, lots of compelling research there about how it goes beyond just the members that you're paying a pension to.

Celine Chiovitti

The life satisfaction one, I think, was the more interesting one as well because we knew... I know inherently in just dealing with members every day, the fact that they have less financial stress in their lives, but trying to try to correlate that with how they live and how they feel about the life that they live. [inaudible 00:10:05] surveyed OMERS members in comparison to individuals who don't have access to a pension.

Celine Chiovitti

To your point, more than 50% of them said that they were more satisfied with life than others. They were also more charitable. They volunteered in their local communities. They relied less on other government subsidies and health care. Lots of real connections about, again, how they're able to live better in retirement than individuals who don't have access to this type of a pension.

Caroline Blouin

Why do you think that is, Celine?

Celine Chiovitti

I think, again, it goes back to peace of mind and knowing that you're not going to outlive your savings. If you think about during your working career, you have more options potentially to subsidize your income when you are older, it becomes much more difficult. When you know that you know what, you're going to get that paycheck each and every month, you don't need to worry about that. You can then budget and take that money and know that you can contribute to your healthcare and age at home. Again, just relieve some of that burden that's out there.

Caroline Blouin

That's great. Now, let's think about our younger adults, those entering the workforce. Often it's difficult to think about retirement because it's an event that is so far out and you're focused on building at that stage and entering the workforce. What would you tell your younger self?

Celine Chiovitti

Let me start by saying I totally understand how difficult it is. I think especially today, when I look at our future generation of members, millennials and generation Z, it's tough right now. You're coming out of school, and many people have student debt that they're trying to pay off and making that paycheck last.

Celine Chiovitti

The retirement seems so far in the distant future that it's just not as tangible to see the reward there. What I would say is when I look around at our members, it's probably one of the biggest assets you will ever have. I think the sooner that you start to contribute to a pension plan, whether it's a DB plan or a DC plan, you're putting money away for the future, especially if you have access to a plan where there are employers that are matching your contributions. You're almost leaving money on the table if you're not doing it.

Caroline Blouin

Absolutely.

Celine Chiovitti

There's one aspect of just do it and forget about it. Then there's another aspect of don't forget that it is an asset and you should pay attention and look at your documents and make it an annual practice to review everything once a year. What I will say is as I get to spend tons of time with people on both ends of their careers, I have not met one individual who was not about to collect a pension who hasn't said, "I feel like I've won the lottery, like I'm so grateful.”

Celine Chiovitti

Our oldest member pensioner at OMERS is 107 years old and has been receiving a pension for over 40 years. None of us know what the future has to hold, but what I do know is you don't want to be in a vulnerable position when you are no longer able to care for yourself and work. You want to know that you've got that peace of mind. I just strongly encourage everyone to just, if you are fortunate and you have access to a pension, do it, do it early and at some point in your life, you are going to be just so grateful that you've done it.

Caroline Blouin

I think the other piece of advice you gave is look at your annual benefit statements. This is the great time when you receive that benefit statement. Just take a moment and look at it and see if you need to make adjustments.

Celine Chiovitti

Absolutely. I will say, I think for everybody, there's just more and more access to information online. If you have access to digital tools, it doesn't have to be a long drawn out process. But just, again, good practice to start looking at things regularly.

Caroline Blouin

That's great. Now, let's shift back to attraction and retention that Alex told us was a key element of the business case for a good workplace retirement plan. Rachel, HOOPP released a super interesting survey in November. In that survey, you concluded that the top concerns for Canadian employers in 2022 is losing staff and employee burnout. One of the findings actually states that 17 % and that's almost one in five said that they either launched or enhanced their retirement plans in the past year or planned to do so next year. Why do you think that is?

Rachel Arbour

It really speaks to the value that a pension can provide in your workplace. We look at a survey that we issued earlier this year where we pulled Canadians as a whole to learn what they felt about pensions. We learned that 66% of Canadians would be willing to take less money in salary in favor of having better workplace pensions. I think employers understand that, that it's an efficient way of delivering compensation to their employees, that it helps give them an edge and an attraction and a retention environment where these are concerns for employers how do they attract and retain talent in their workplaces?

Rachel Arbour

Improving and offering on the pension side, on the benefit side, is a way employers can distinguish themselves. We know that both employers and employees agree that pensions are very important to their workplaces. I think it's great news to hear so many employers planning to improve their pensions or have improved their pensions in the last year.

Caroline Blouin

If I think about people right now who might be looking for a job, I think people's top of mind is usually to ask about pay, vacation, health and dental benefits, wellness programs, maybe, but pension rarely makes it to the top of the list. What would you say to those people? How would you encourage them to begin the conversation?

Rachel Arbour

Yes, that's an interesting question. When we know, based on our survey of Canadians as a whole, that saving for retirement is a number two issue that most Canadians have. How are they going to make the time and energy to save for retirement? It is just so much easier if you have help in the workplace in achieving those goals. It's just so much easier to conceive of a retirement if you have a retirement plan in place for you that you can check on.

Rachel Arbour

As Celine said, where your employer is matching your contributions, and it's well thought out, and the design is appropriate to what your future retirement needs will be. I think part of having that conversation is understanding what a pension may mean for you at the end of the day, what you're trying to achieve in your working life, and the fact that you might want to end your working life at some point and go into retirement. That means having the money to sustain yourself after working.

Rachel Arbour

That shift in understanding, and I know there's a lot of financial education that's happening with their children to help them understand financial planning. Part of that will be to help people understand that if they don't put aside money for retirement earlier in their careers, it's not going to be as easy to do at the end of your career. Enabling people to have those conversations when they first start in their workplaces, what is the pension plan? Is there an employer match? How will you support me in my future retirement?

Rachel Arbour

That is just as important as is there dental coverage in this workplace. Probably more important when we think about Canadians overall goals for their future and their savings.

Caroline Blouin

On that, I'll go around the table and see if there is one piece of advice or one key takeaway you want to leave the listeners from today's podcast. Celine, you're shaking your head, yes.

Celine Chiovitti

Again, I would say it's a shared responsibility as an individual with your employer, and I would take that responsibility seriously. Pay attention to it. Again, access your communications, ask the right questions. Don't wait. Often, I have people in my office are calling me when they're five years away from retirement and they're starting to pay attention.

Celine Chiovitti

I wish they had paid attention years ago because at that point in time, it's very difficult to make changes and to afford to make changes when you're so close to retirement. I think my one piece of advice is number one, if you have access to a pension, you are extremely fortunate. Pay attention, make the right choices. If you don't have access to a pension, then I think the importance of savings and get some advice from someone that you really, really trust, some financial advisors out there. It's all of our responsibility.

Caroline Blouin

I love it. Rachel?

Rachel Arbour

I'll just pull from what Celine was saying. Our survey showed us that 77% of Canadians and 80% of employers believe that without good pensions, our economy will suffer. Going to that social value of the pension, good workplace pensions really have broader application and are just so beneficial to all of us to see our seniors live successfully in retirement.

Caroline Blouin

Love it. Some beautiful key messages. Alex?

Alex Mazer

For me, if you're an employer, consider setting up a plan if you don't have one. There's 1.2 million small and medium businesses in this country. 90% of Canadians, the private sector, work for a small and medium business. That's where the people are. I think the business case is super strong, and I think that there's been a lot of innovation in the market. Technology has changed a lot. It's a lot easier and more affordable and less risky to set up a plan today. Check it out. There's many ways of doing it. Your employees probably value it more than you think.

Alex Mazer

If you're an employee, it's okay to ask about it. Talk to your coworkers about it. This shouldn't just be a private individual issue. This can be a workplace issue. Talk to your employer, talk to your HR. If you're an HR professional, talk to your benefits advisor. Most small and medium employers work with benefits advisors already. Most of those advisors also can advise you on various retirement and pension arrangements that can be suitable for you. I think there's a lot of opportunity to expand coverage for those 10 million Canadians that don't have a workplace, pension, or retirement plan today.

Caroline Blouin

That's right. If you're looking for a new job, don't forget to ask if they have a retirement plan as part of the package. It's a good and fair question.

Caroline Blouin

Let me ask you, would you have any resources that you would like to share with our listeners?

Celine Chiovitti

I think there's a wealth of information online right now, and so I think we're in a better place than we ever have and that people can go on. I know FSRA has their website, definitely. If you're an OMERS member, access our website, use our tools. We've got our member-facing portals, and I know HOOPP is the same. I would just say take it seriously, leverage the resources, ask the questions and engage often.

Rachel Arbour

Consider following your pension plan on social media.

Caroline Blouin

That's a great one. Yes, you're all on social media.

Rachel Arbour

Well, and even if you're not a member of one of our plans. I know that both OMERS and HOOPP puts out a lot of information on a regular basis. We try to do it in quick and short videos to help people really understand the value of the pensions that they have, but that's applicable broadly. Just in the world of keeping pensions front of mind and remembering to touch in with your pension plan on an annual basis, make sure you understand, keep your contact information up to date, that information. But if your pension plan offers any social media presence, it's a really good way just to remind yourself that it's out there for you.

Caroline Blouin

Yeah, because the more you know, the better off you'll be, right? Alex?

Alex Mazer

The only thing I'll add is one of the key things coming out of the research that we did together with HOOPP was there can be pretty dramatic differences between a very good workplace retirement plan and one that's not so good. I think we'd say that any plan is a good thing because it tends to add value relative to what people are going to be able to do on their own, so it is efficient. But looking for things like lower fees, like portability.

Alex Mazer

Rachel talked about the importance of having a plan that you can keep, ways of protecting against the risk about living your money. Celine talked about not having to worry when you're 107 about where that paycheck is going to come from. Those things are incredibly powerful, helping people with investment decisions and avoid common investment mistakes. These things can be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars for an individual over the course of a lifetime. That's another resource, that research that we've done on the value of a good pension that's available to employers and their advisors to really try and evaluate what makes a retirement plan efficient or not.

Caroline Blouin

That's great. Well, it was so incredible to be here with you today and to have the opportunity to have this conversation. Thank you very much, Rachel, Celine, and Alex. I really appreciate your time, advice, and tips.

Outro – Caroline Blouin

To our listeners, if you liked today's episode, please remember to share the podcast with friends and family. To learn more about today's topic, visit us at www.fsrao.ca/pensionawareness.

Pre-Intro Teaser

If you're fortunate enough to have a workplace pension plan or workplace savings plan, learn about that plan because it might offer you something called matching, which means that for every dollar that you put in, your employer might put in another dollar or 50 cents depending on the specifics of your plan.

Intro - Caroline Blouin

Welcome to the Pension Savvy podcast. I'm Carolyn Blouin, Executive Vice President at FSRA, the Financial Services Regulatory Authority of Ontario. The Pension Savvy podcasts are conversations with pension experts where we debunk common myths and share tips to enable you to live well today and tomorrow.

Caroline Blouin

I'm delighted to introduce you today to two of our guests, Michael Carter, AVP, Sponsor Experience and Product Development at Sun Life, and Marc-Antoine Morin, AVP, Group Retirement Services at Manulife. Welcome, Michael and Marc-Antoine.

Michael Carter

Thank you.

Marc-Antoine Morin

Thank you.

Caroline Blouin

It's so nice to have you today. The focus of our podcast today is really aimed at younger adults. The intention is really what actions can they take today so that their future selves will thank them later? Let's demystify retirement savings and savings in general. Think back, you're a young adult entering the workforce, early 20s, what should you know about pension and retirement savings?

Michael Carter

I think that's a great question. I actually enjoy travelling back in time to my younger self. But I think the first thing to really think about is even though I can really empathize and understand that these personal financial questions can be daunting and provide a lot of apprehension, you don't need all the answers upfront to just start saving.

Michael Carter

What you really just need to do is start saving. Put a little bit of money aside each paycheck, because what that's doing is building your flexibility and options later on in life as you figure out what's interesting to you, what matters to you, and what you want to achieve. The whole concept of climbing a mountain or even the CN tower starts with one step. Really focus on that first step is putting a little bit of money aside.

Michael Carter

I personally really enjoy the concept of, this is probably a technical world of paycheck deductions or payroll deductions, but this whole concept that you start saving right off of your paycheck before it even hits your checking account. Because as you start to build out your lifestyle and start to spend your money as you build out your life, it's already baked in.

Michael Carter

It's not in your bank account to spend. I think that's a really powerful way of starting that habit. Then there's that concept of why do I start early? It really comes down to this saying that I always talk about where money makes money. The whole concept of compounding returns, that each dollar that you earn from investments is there to help you make the next dollar. It builds on itself.

Michael Carter

Just a little example, if you're 20 years old and you start putting away $100 a month and you do that until you're 60, you personally have saved about $48,000. But with compounding interest, you'd actually end up with roughly $200,000, almost four times the amount that you've actually saved yourself.

Michael Carter

That's a huge, powerful tool for young people starting out to really understand that starting early every year that you delay means that you personally just need to put more and more away, which can really impact your lifestyle and doing what you care about later on in life.

Caroline Blouin

How are people thinking about it? There's so much to think about when you're in your early 20s, you're paying students loans frequently, you're thinking about moving out of your parents house, saving to buy your own condo or your house, maybe thinking about vacation. How can we think about this differently?

Michael Carter

I think first thing that I would really recommend is becoming educated about your options. We talked about compounding interest and how important that is in starting early. But another concept to keep in mind is if you're fortunate enough to have a workplace pension plan or workplace savings plan, learn about that plan because it might offer you something called matching, which means that for every dollar that you put in, your employer might put in another dollar or 50 cents depending on the specifics of your plan.

Michael Carter

We just talked about the example about compounding interest. That was around 6% on average from a market. You're now thinking about the value of 100% return on your investment from your employer. That's another really powerful thing is I would recommend to young people is don't leave that free money on the table.

Michael Carter

But in Canada, over $3 billion worth of that match in money is left on the table every year because people aren't contributing and taking advantage of that. As you start stacking these things together, compounding interest, employer contributions, your ability to reach your goals and achieve what you want in life just gets easier and easier and easier. You're not in it alone is really what I would want young people to understand.

Caroline Blouin

I love that. I just want to reiterate this concept of the match. It's astounding the amount of billion dollars of assets that are untapped. And this is an immediate return on your money before you even invest it. Where should people go to to know what the employer match is, if there is one, what would be your advice?

Michael Carter

I think my advice is to either talk to your manager or even talk to the HR department at your company. They should be able to give you all the information that's available to you. Usually, they'll give you access to either their provider's website or even a booklet that allows you to read and really understand the benefits. Usually, everyone in your workplace is friendly, happy people, and I'm sure they will give you their advice on the plan as well.

Caroline Blouin

That's great advice. Let's say I'm a young person looking for a job and I think of my children looking for a job, why do you think employees are not as likely to ask about whether there's a workplace retirement plan as part of the employment value proposition as they are to ask about vacation and health plans and dental plans?

Marc-Antoine Morin

I think there's a portion of that that might come from the history of pension in Canada. For a long time, we had what we call defined benefit pension plan, these things that guarantee you a lifetime income in retirement. Back in the days, it was very difficult to measure the value of that pension. So if you were seeking out a job, you could ask the question, do you have a pension? Yes or no? And that was enough.

Marc-Antoine Morin

Most of the pension were similar enough that it didn't really matter the specifics. But as we enter a world where what we call defined contribution, where you invest your money and you see your account value increasing, it's important to ask more questions because plans are very different. You might get 1% from your employer, you might get 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

Marc-Antoine Morin

The question, do you have a pension plan, is no longer enough. You have to get into the specifics. Do you have a pension plan or savings programme? Yes, that's great. Tell me more about it because it should be part of your overall compensation programme.

Marc-Antoine Morin

If an employer offers 2% employer contribution, that's fantastic. If the other employers offer you a very generous programme, 6, 7, or 8, well, you should factor that in when you compare the total compensation that they're giving you. You're just one question away from getting that answer, basically.

Caroline Blouin

When you mean 2% versus 6%, you mean percentage of salary.

Marc-Antoine Morin

Yes.

Caroline Blouin

That's usually how they work. You're referring to the contribution the employer makes to the pension plan in relation to your salary.

Marc-Antoine Morin

That's correct.

Caroline Blouin

That's great. We're talking a lot about investments so far, so let's demystify that. Talking finances can be very intimidating to start with. Now we're talking about, Okay, I've decided to contribute to the pension plan. Now what? What do I do with the money? What's your advice?

Michael Carter

Sure. I think we've been talking about starting to save early. We've been talking about learning about your options, taking advantage of your full matching or employer contributions. Another key area is to always tap into the professional advice that you have access to. As a regular Canadian, there are lots of financial institutions that can offer that to you. Definitely, if you have a workplace plan, you'll have access to that professional advice.

Michael Carter

I think first and foremost, that's a great place to start to learn about all your options. I think as you start to get into what do I do next here, and I'm willing to save $100 a paycheck or more, you're going to start to run into certain things like named of RSPs, TFSAs, DCPPs, which is just a fancy name for a pension plan at work.

Caroline Blouin

I think we need to break all of this down. What's an RSP? What's a TFSA? And what's a DCPP?

Michael Carter

Exactly. That's a perfect question. I always like to use the name so when people run into it out in the world, they're not scared by it. But basically, there's two concepts as part of those programmes. First one is when do you pay tax?

Michael Carter

An RSP and a DCPP are what we call tax-deferred products, which means that when you contribute to them, you don't have to pay tax right away. The concept is that you end up with more money upfront to build on that compounding interest to build up your savings as much as possible.

Michael Carter

Then the other concept is hopefully in retirement, and these are typically retirement products, you're going to pay a little less tax in retirement because you're probably earning less.

Caroline Blouin

Just to interrupt, the DCPP is a Defined Contribution Pension Plan?

Michael Carter

Yes.

Caroline Blouin

Perfect.

Michael Carter

You got your first two options around your RSP, which is a Registered Savings Plan, or your DCPP, which is a contribution pension plan. I wouldn't get too hung up on the names, but I just don't want people to be taken aback when they start seeing these algebraic-like names.

Michael Carter

Then you have the other typical option, which is a TFSA, which is a Tax-Free Savings Account. Really, the difference there is that you pay tax going into the plan, but then your money grows and you can make tax-free withdrawals out of the product.

Michael Carter

You're probably asking, "Well, which one is better?" Unfortunately, the answer is neither one is better than the other. It really is about creating a plan with multiple goals in life. Then each product helps you achieve those goals in different ways.

Michael Carter

A typical Canadian, for example, might end up in their workplace pension plan, the DCPP, that attracts the match from the employer, so you're getting as much retirement support as you need. They might then use a TFSA for an emergency savings account so that if something happens, they have that cushion, as well as other short-term saving goals that they might need.

Michael Carter

Then they might use an RSP as that longer-term savings vehicle, but that has that flexibility within it so that if something happens, they can take money out of that to deal with that. You start to stack all of these options together, which allows you to achieve all your various goals.

Michael Carter

That's why we really recommend talking to a professional to give you advice, because as you can see in that short summary, it can get relatively complicated. But again, I come back to you're not alone in this. You have lots of access to support that can help you determine the best plan for you.

Caroline Blouin

Many workplaces offer one, if not all, of these vehicles.

Michael Carter

Yes.

Caroline Blouin

Right?

Michael Carter

In many cases, yes.

Caroline Blouin

There might be a group RSP, a group TFSA, Defined Contribution Pension Plan, defined benefit plan. It's about getting informed about what are the possibilities at your employer?

Michael Carter

Absolutely. Couldn't say it better.

Marc-Antoine Morin

There's one thing that's interesting. Getting advice is super important, obviously, at some point when you face difficult decision. But what I like to tell people is even before you decide to seek advice, you have to educate and inform yourself. An analogy I use is the goal is not to be a professional swimmer and try to make it to the Olympics, but you need to know how to swim.

Marc-Antoine Morin

It's that 20/80 rule where with 20% of the effort, you can probably get 80% of the outcome you're looking for. It's a life skill to be able to navigate around investment and savings. It's an investment that you're going to make in yourself. The fact that you're listening to the podcast means you're already on your way there. But making that investment now, if you're in your 20s or in your 30s, it's something that's going to be with you your entire life.

Marc-Antoine Morin

Whether you decide to rely on an advisor or you decide to manage things a little bit more by yourself, you still need to get into a comfort level. Don't try to become an expert. Don't try to pick out stocks on the marketplace. You don't need to get there. You might want to, but you don't need to. But get yourself comfortable. Learn how to swim. It's like cooking. It's a life skill.

Caroline Blouin

Let's talk about that just a little bit. The benefit of diversification at its simplest level. We hear about it a lot. You've used it in your answer. Marc-Antoine, can you break this down for us?

Marc-Antoine Morin

The most basic example I like to use of the benefit of diversification is you don't want to invest in funds or securities or stocks that are all going to go in the same direction at the same time. If you're buying two stocks from two auto companies, well, if the car market is not going well, both of them are going to tank at the same time, and that's not desirable.

Marc-Antoine Morin

The analogy is you should try to find one company that sells umbrellas and one company that sells sunscreens so that you're always going to make return across the board. If the weather is good, your sunscreen company is going to perform well and the other way around for the other. That's the most simplistic explanation of diversification is you want to make sure when some are going up, others are going down. You don't want your entire portfolio to just crash at the same time.

Marc-Antoine Morin

Diversification, without going into the math, it has long term benefit because you can build a portfolio, let's say that, where you can expect a rate of return of 6% every year that's going to fluctuate a lot less than another portfolio that might have the same 6% where you might have a lot of up and downs.

Marc-Antoine Morin

All the professionals are doing it. If you educate yourself around investment, this is usually one of the first thing that comes up, benefit of diversification. Don't put all of your eggs in the same basket.

Caroline Blouin

I love the example of the sunscreen and umbrella. Thank you, Marc-Antoine, for that one. You've both talked about the need to get informed as step one. Where should I go to get educated and informed? I mean, there's lots to do. We're talking to young adults today. Where would you direct young people to?

Marc-Antoine Morin

I think if you're lucky enough to have an employer-sponsored saving programme, it's very likely that there's going to be a number of resources that are available through that programme. Usually, they hired third-party companies to manage that pension programme.

Marc-Antoine Morin

Through the guidelines that exist in the industry, they have to provide education material so you probably have a website. And on that website, there's a lot of educational information on investment savings, budgeting, financial wellness in general. That's a really good place to start if you're looking for educational material that's unbiased.

Marc-Antoine Morin

Another one that I'd like to mention is Get Smarter About Money, which is sponsored by the Ontario Securities Commission. It's a fantastic website. It covers a lot of things.

Caroline Blouin

That's great. Marc-Antoine, Michael, do you have favourite resources as well?

Michael Carter

I really enjoy also, if you're fortunate enough to have a workplace pension plan, a lot of the self-serve tools that they offer is a great place to start to, I'd say, play around with different options and educate yourself. As you're potentially working with a professional to determine the best way to achieve your goals, or you just want to self-ducate yourself.

Michael Carter

These tools can really allow you to set up multiple goals within life. If you want to buy a house, you want to go on trips, you need to buy cars, you want to save for retirement, staying it all in one breath is a lot, imagine trying to achieve it for someone planning out for the rest of their life. These tools really break it down for you and allow you to set up those various goals, set up your current financial situation.

Michael Carter

Then the tools actually help you look at different strategies to achieve your goals, whether you need to increase your savings rate to achieve one-year term goal, whether you should direct your money to different products and so forth.

Michael Carter

So when you think about getting educated, for me, doing is learning. You hear about the math lesson in school, you think you understand it, and then when you go to actually solve the problem, you'll learn even more. I think that for a lot of people, educating yourself is about doing.

Michael Carter

And these tools offer a really safe environment for you just to play around with, understand different opportunities so that when you talk to someone, you feel ready and you can have a really deep conversation. I really like those options as well.

Caroline Blouin

Let's talk, Michael, now that you're speaking about the Sun Life Canadian Health Index.

Michael Carter

Mm-hmm.

Caroline Blouin

In it, it talks a lot about financial wellness and employees being distracted at work by financial issues. For those of you who are listening and are worried about financial issues at work, know that you are not alone. Can you tell us a little bit more about what the Sun Life Canadian Health Index tells us? And have you seen some employers that have adopted some really neat financial wellness programmes to help their employees?

Michael Carter

Yes. I think that we all recognize that the stress on employees of these financial challenges is real, and it can really impact how people feel and it manifests in mental health challenges and even in physical health challenges. That is really a profound impact for each Canadian, and so we care very much about it.

Michael Carter

The health index that you highlighted identified that almost 30% of Canadians are reporting that they're distracted at work because these financial stresses are weighing on them. The good news is there is lots of support for employers to get involved, engage with their employees, and help with this type of stress. It really comes down to a lot of the three principles that we've been talking about already.

Michael Carter

The first and foremost is financial literacy. When employees feel like they don't know their options, they don't know how to address a problem, that really increases anxiety because they're faced with a problem and they don't know how to get out of it. Really making sure that they advertise and provide easy access to those financial literacy tools is a great first step to help address those stresses.

Michael Carter

The next one is a lot of employers are taking a look at their plan design. They are understanding the type of stresses that their employees are under, and then they're determining whether they have the right mix of products, everything we talked about, what are their employees trying to achieve, and are they offering the right products for them to achieve it.

Michael Carter

They're also evaluating various financial incentives to help those employees achieve those goals, matching being one of them. They're considering are they giving the right incentives within that programme.

Michael Carter

Then finally, it's really focused on that financial advice aspect. Once your employees are educated or start to understand that there are solutions out there, once they've evaluated their plan design and made sure that they're offering the right services and products to achieve what the employees are looking for, offering that direct advice is really powerful because it's that helping hand.

Michael Carter

Everyone in life gets into situations where they need that helping hand. The power of being able to pick up the phone or book a meeting and have someone call you so you can sit down and say, "Hey, this is where I'm at. This is what I'm trying to achieve. What do I do?" And having someone walk through with you your options and creating that plan is really powerful.

Michael Carter

We've heard lots of examples and testimonials from our clients where they go in thinking that they're in a dire situation and they come out with a plan in hand and they feel so much better. So for employers, those are really three key things that they could think about when they want to engage their employees and support them.

Caroline Blouin

That's great. Marc-Antoine, we all know that 2022 has been a difficult year in terms of hiring and retaining key talent. Are you seeing employers having a renewed interest in their retirement plan as an effective tool to mitigate the impact around talent?

Marc-Antoine Morin

Yes, that's a very good topic. Definitely, and actually how employers are reacting to this is a lot of them are trying to rebrand their retirement programme into a savings programme. The new workforce, the new generation, as much as they should be saving for retirement because it's an important financial goal, they don't necessarily like the label. It's very difficult in your 20s and 30s to associate yourself with the concept of retirement.

Marc-Antoine Morin

Not only are they trying to rebrand and maybe position this a little bit more like a saving programme, but the way that they're designing their programme is also evolving. There used to be a lot of traditional pension plan where if you contribute into the pension plan, the money has to stay in there until you retire in your 50s and your 60s.

Marc-Antoine Morin

Now they're moving more and more toward flexible design where maybe a portion of those contributions are going to go toward a more traditional pension where the money has to stick around until your 50s, 60s. But a portion of it might still be accessible in a registered retirement saving plan or in a tax-free saving account.

Marc-Antoine Morin

So you kind of get the best of both worlds where some of it is going to go toward a long-term saving goals and some of it is still going to be accessible to the employees and they appreciate that flexibility.

Marc-Antoine Morin

They might still put that money toward retirement in the long term. But just having the control is a very powerful message and more and more employers are shifting in that direction as a way to react to the new workforce that want more flexibility in how they save.

Caroline Blouin

Before we wrap it up, can I ask each one of you to say, if you had one key takeaway you wanted to leave with our listeners, what would it be?

Michael Carter

I think the first key takeaway for me is learn about your workplace pension plan. As Marc was highlighting, it is such a powerful tool for you. It potentially offers you matching. Don't leave one of your dollars of that three billion dollars on the table. Make sure you're using all of your matching. Make sure you're taking advantage of those low fees to allow your money to grow even faster.

Michael Carter

Take advantage of those educational services and that advice services that you can get. It's a great place for you to start. If you were to take one thing away is that if you're fortunate to have a workplace plan, learn as much about that as possible because it'll be a great start for the rest of your financial security.

Marc-Antoine Morin

I would say make it work for you, in a sense that if you're trying to save for different goals, whether it's retirement, whether it's purchasing a house, you have to find a formula that works for you.

Marc-Antoine Morin

I can share my own personal example in this one. When I was in my 20s, despite the fact that I had been working in the retirement industry for so long, I wasn't necessarily comfortable just locking my money away for retirement. I wanted to keep the flexibility.

Marc-Antoine Morin

For a long time, what I did is I automated my saving directly from my paycheck so I didn't have to think about it as much as possible. After, obviously, making sure I take advantage of my employer plan, like those matching contribution we've talked about. You can't get away from this. This is too important.

Marc-Antoine Morin

I was automating my other savings into a tax-free saving account, which had some great benefit. I parked my money there and once a year and maybe I could have done that every two years, once a year I was taking a step back. I had accumulated that money and then I was deciding what to do with it.

Marc-Antoine Morin

Am I going to put a little bit of it in for my retirement, a little bit of it to pay back my mortgage, or some of it I would just treat myself, maybe a trip. That was my way to trick myself into saving for the long term by just keeping control and always feeling that I have that flexibility of allocating that money however I feel like doing it. But I had built my muscle of savings. It was all automated. I didn't have to think about it. It was a once-in-a-year event.

Caroline Blouin

We've come to the end. Thank you so much, Michael. Thank you, Marc-Antoine. This was a wonderful conversation and you've shared some really great tips, so thank you for that.

Outro – Caroline Blouin

To our listeners, if you like today's episode, please remember to share the podcast with friends and family. To learn more about today's topic, visit us at www.fsrao.ca/pensionawareness.

Pre-Intro Teaser

If there's a $20 bill on the sidewalk and you walk, you're going to bend over to pick it up, right? If your employer matches your contribution, it's almost an IQ test. Just contribute to get it. It's 100 % direct return. It's like somebody refusing a salary increase.

Intro - Caroline Blouin

Welcome to the pension savvy podcast. I'm Caroline Blouin 1, Executive Vice President at FSRA, the Financial Services Regulatory Authority of Ontario. The Pension Savvy podcast are conversations with pension experts where we debunk common myths and share tips to enable you to live well today and tomorrow.

Caroline Blouin

It is my great pleasure and honor to introduce you today to Rene Beaudry. Rene is an inspiring thought leader and expert in the retirement space. He cofounded the consulting firm Normandin Beaudry, and the firm now employs close to 150 professionals specializing in compensation, pensions, and benefits. Rene amongst many things, has been a policy adviser and acted on several expert committees. Bonjour, Rene.

Rene Beaudry

Good morning.

Caroline Blouin

So, Rene, in our episode with Hoop, OMERS, and Commonwealth, we talked about the link between financial health, mental health, and physical health. Rene, from your own peRRSPective, what is the linkage between financial health and happy productive employees?

Rene Beaudry

I like that you mentioned happy because productive, but less worried, more energized, happy employees, that'd be the way I would call them. Well, I could go on and on on this, but to summarize it, there are two things that are important for employees, for people in general. They have to have confidence in a financial plan. If they don't have financial plan, that creates wariness.

Rene Beaudry

They have to have a feel of a certain control over their future. There's two things that I think will weave through the other questions and the remarks that I'll make. A plan and confidence in the future.

Caroline Blouin

Before we went on air, you were talking about confidence in the future, and you were telling me about this amazing story about a large firm where people were showing up at their employer on Saturday mornings to talk about retirement and financial planning. I am completely fascinated by this story, particularly the part about employees bringing their spouse to work on a Saturday morning. Tell us a little bit more, what makes this so attractive?

Rene Beaudry

Well, this company has about 12 pension plans. One of their groups, they decided to have full day sessions on Saturdays. They had three sessions, one hour and a half on pension, group insurance, and estate planning. They invited people. It was on an invitation basis. People over 45 years old.

Rene Beaudry

Among the people they invited, almost 100% showed up, a good portion with their spouses. The way we had built it is, yes, we had session, but we had a lot of breaks for people to ask individual questions. You've got experts in the room and you've got pertinent information. The spouses are there. We're presenting in plain language. Well, I guess finding an impartial financial planner these days, probably as hard as finding a good general practitioner. People were very enthusiastic about this.

Rene Beaudry

The one thing that our client had not foreseen was that they would spread the word and that other employees, younger employees would be asking for the same thing. Obviously, it's costly to have these sessions, but we were thrilled. People would spend a whole day with us. I guess that's just good.

Caroline Blouin

It's totally amazing. People stayed through the whole day. Of course. That's amazing. I'm fascinating too, that the younger employees, those under 35, were asking to join the conversation. Why do you think that is?

Rene Beaudry

Well, like I said before, they need a plan. They need to have control over their future. There's high inflation, houses are very costly. Anything that they can learn about, not only their pension plan, but finance in general, is attractive to them.

Rene Beaudry

I'll repeat myself, it's hard to find impartial advice on this. When the employer is providing advice, and I think that's one important thing, it's not so much about an employer trying to convince their employees they have a good pension plan.

Rene Beaudry

It's an employer saying, as an aside we'll provide, impartial financial advice. You can ask an expert, how many times in your life can you have in the same room a group insurance Actuary, a pension Actuary, and a lawyer talking about estate planning, and it's free as an employee. There's only 35 people in the room. It's not like you're on teams with 200 people.

Caroline Blouin

Let's say I am a small employer, I don't have a retirement plan, and it's a tight labor market. I really want to attract top talent. What would you tell them?

Rene Beaudry

Well, I'd say start a savings plan, not a retirement savings plan. Put in a few automatic features like we find in the UK and in the states. I'll get to that. Don't talk too much about savings. Just try and put in place a savings mindset because you're trying to attract younger people.

Rene Beaudry

Among those features I was just talking about, auto enrolment is something that's not as popular as it should be in Canada. I'm sure in your pension plan with the government, when you joined in, you didn't ask any question and you didn't say anything about the fact that they were deducting contributions from your pay. You see it as a benefit, right? Because you get a pension.

Rene Beaudry

Well, it should be the same with any employer. Auto enrolment means that people are not forced to contribute, but they're told they're contributing unless they decide otherwise, so they can always walk out of that contribution.

Rene Beaudry

Auto escalation, it's a lot easier for people to start in saving if you add 1% of contribution every year, exactly the same time as they get their salary raise. If you get a 4% salary raise and there is one more percent that's deducted, you don't even feel it, you don't see it, and soon enough you find yourself contributing 5 or 6%. Any employer can do that.

Rene Beaudry

The other thing is there's enough financial institutions out there with good, well thought out funds that are not too expensive to put in place, and that's the third leg, I guess, a default investment fund. People will not spend the time researching what is the right investment.

Rene Beaudry

You hire experts and financial institutions that provide that for people to just be put in an investment fund that's conservative and that's diversified. Again, they can change and make other choices. But that would be the three things that I would advise a small employer to do if they started a savings plan.

Caroline Blouin

Great. The auto features you've talked about, I really like them as well. There's a lot of research to back these around the nudging. It goes to the concept of paying yourself first. Tell me more about that concept, René.

Rene Beaudry

Well, it's a very basic notion that financial planners are taught. It's something that I learned about 35 years ago. Basically, people don't like writing up budgets. What they'll do actually is they'll spend and what's left over, they will save, which is really not a good strategy. Pay Yourself First is basically saying, Well, if I contribute 3, 4, 5% of my RRSP, then after that, what's left can be used for other things. You don't have to budget as much. That's the simplistic view, but that's basically what Pay Yourself First is.

Caroline Blouin

Thank you. That's what the auto enrolment, auto escalation feature do. Let's shift our focus for a moment. I want to talk about why pretty much everyone, every employee appreciates the value of a dental health or wellness program, but retirement plans seem to be unnoticed, underappreciated, and not really valued as a part of your employment value proposition and total compensation package. What are your thoughts on that?

Rene Beaudry

My thoughts on that is that it's not all that jazzy for someone who's 25 years old to be told that they have a pension plan, something that's going to happen 35 years down the road. That's why I keep talking about savings plans. You change the narrative and talk about savings.

Rene Beaudry

Well, to go back to what you were saying, nobody would go into an interview without asking before leaving about whether there's a health or dental plan. Nobody would do that. I can't think of anyone who wouldn't ask how many weeks of vacation they would get, right?

Rene Beaudry

If I turn around and look from the employer side, rarely would you have an employer there not having a long term disability plan. You're providing a long term disability plan, you know you need health and mental to attract people. If employees would ask for whether there is a savings plan and how much it is, well, the ball would start rolling.

Rene Beaudry

If an employee retires from a company that has a savings plan, she will use the savings for retirement. It's more about something that's good across all generations versus a benefit that's focused on people closer to retirement. I think that's one of the reasons why they're not asked about or they're not all that popular.

Rene Beaudry

If you're an employer, and my clients are employers, I'd say, mention it all the time during recruitment, you put in a good savings plan. If you keep talking about it, people will start when they do their two columns comparing you with another employer, they'll start using that in the comparison and they'll ask the question. If you put in a 5% of salary savings plan and the next employer is not, I'll tell you, it's going to show up in the decision grid that the employees will use.

Caroline Blouin

Because that's a 5% pay increase, essentially.

Rene Beaudry

It is. Yeah, it is.

Caroline Blouin

It has lots of benefits. Why do you think that people who are looking for a job are not keeping this question top of mind of whether the prospective employer has a savings plan or retirement plan? What would be your advice to those listeners today?

Rene Beaudry

I think it's probably because of the misconception people have about retirement savings. They feel that that money is lost because it's going to be there accumulating and they won't be able to touch it. That's why a few years ago, and we even have a trademark on that, we thought of what I call the savings highway.

Rene Beaudry

Savings highway is basically saying to your employees, you can contribute to that savings plan, RRSP, and as an employer, will contribute to a deferred profit-sharing plan. Now, you can contribute whenever you want. You can increase your contributions whenever you want. You can get on the highway at the pace you want whenever you want. But the big difference is you can take your money out whenever you want.

Rene Beaudry

I was brought up thinking like that, the paternalistic view from the employer side is, if I'm going to put money in for them, they're going to save it till retirement. Well, if it's 29 years in the future, they won't think you're providing something of benefit. The savings highway allows people to take money out. In Canada, we have a program, it's called the Home Buyers Plan. You can take money out through your RRSP.

Rene Beaudry

In our plan, in our company, we allow people, obviously, to take their RRSP money out, but also the employer money, which not too many people do. So pretty quickly, you can accumulate that $25,000, $30,000 down payment. If your spouse does the same, well, that's $70,000 right off the bat. You can accumulate that if you save a lot over five or six or seven years.

Rene Beaudry

All the employer does is provide the matching. Also the financial institution, the investment, and the explanation. It's not anymore about saving for retirement. It's about savings period and getting it out when you need it, which is maybe three, four years down the road. That's not because the employee will leave your employment. It's just because they need it. My guess is that people appreciate that.

Caroline Blouin

Yeah. Well, it goes to where we started contributing to financial health and mental and physical health for employees and showing them that you care about them.

Rene Beaudry

Having a plan. That's right. Knowing where the future has got in store for you and not being surprised by...

Caroline Blouin

I know you're super passionate about the pension ecosystem in Canada, so let's talk about that for a moment. Tell me more about your thoughts on our system in Canada and how, in your views, it stacks up globally.

Rene Beaudry

Well, there's a lot of studies on that, but to sum it up, we simply have one of the good, well, one of the best ecosystems in the world on pension, period. We have three pillars, and we offer a lot of flexibility in this country. We have two main government plans, the Canada pension plan and old age security, so CPP and OAS for short.

Rene Beaudry

We also have plans provided by employers. Thirdly, a lot of opportunities for individual savings. All of that is very well balanced. Our government plans provide very good basic protection, and there's plenty of flexibility, which is, I think, key in comparing that system with others. One sad thing, though, is that the government plans in this country are not used well enough yet, but they're not used well enough, not to their full extent.

Caroline Blouin

You mean by people in general are not making good use of the government?

Rene Beaudry

They're not using it to... Well, the right messages are coming out finally, and well, maybe that's because a lot of baby boomers are coming up for retirement and asking a lot of questions about this. But it's only recently that people have started to understand that taking your pension early is certainly not the smart thing to do. But it's like an urban legend. You've been told for a decade or two that you should be doing that, and that's not the case.

Caroline Blouin

Let's talk about this. You're talking about the Canada pension plan where you can decide to take it at age 60, or you may defer it to age 70. Tell me more about why is it a bad idea to take it at age 60?

Rene Beaudry

Now, that's very important and probably one of the most important things I'll say today. I'll use a few numbers to explain this. At 65, these plans were designed with a normal retirement age, so called normal retirement age of 65. Under the Canada pension plan, you can expect about $16,000 per year starting at that age, and about 8,000 from old age security. The key number here is about $25,000 for most Canadians starting at 65.

Caroline Blouin

That's the maximum benefit.

Rene Beaudry

At 65, the maximum. People who have earned less than approximately what is $65,000 in Canadian dollars, if they've earned less than that, they'll get a bit less. You can take your Canada pension plan as early as age 60, which unfortunately, a lot of people have done. I say unfortunately because it's reduced then to take into account the fact you got your money for a longer period of time.

Rene Beaudry

Most people don't do it because they need it. They do it because they've heard it's the right thing to do, and it's not. Because what they really need to do is not take it and defer it gradually, like you mentioned, up to age 70. From my point of view, that's probably the best strategy. I'm not the only one in my industry to know that. The word is starting to get around in the papers, articles, in podcast like this one. Thank you very much for the opportunity to talk about this.

Caroline Blouin

Let's unpack this a little bit more because people have perhaps personal savings and they might have a workplace retirement plan. Then in addition, they have the CPP and OAS benefits. Tell me more about how someone should approach this in terms of decumulating their assets and what to tap into first, and how do they decide what age to retire?

Rene Beaudry

Okay, well, let's talk about the accumulation. I don't know about the age at retirement, but it's a personal question or decision. Canadians are big savers. There's an estimated $1,600 billion in Canada mostly in the RPSs, but in what we call accumulation retirement plans.

Rene Beaudry

The problem with that is, well, it's not a problem, but almost, if not more than half of this is in the hands of people over 55 at this moment. Most people in that group are not too sure how to best decumulate. Decumulating your savings is basically drawing down and taking money out of your RRSP.

Caroline Blouin

It's the reverse of accumulating.

Rene Beaudry

It's the reverse of accumulating. You've gone up in the chair lift now, you need to go down the hill and nobody's told you to buy a pair of skis. Most people don't know for sure. They're looking for advice. Oh, I forgot to mention, the RRSP, when you get to that phase where you start getting your money out, you transfer it to what we call a RRIF, a Registered Retirement Income Fund. That acronym is not as well known because people have been putting in money in two RRSPs, but they haven't talked too much about risk. But that's going to be on everyone's mind in the coming years.

Rene Beaudry

What we see happening, and there's a lot of literature on that, isn't it? Most people are afraid they will not have enough. What they do curiously, they're afraid they're going to run out of money, so they don't take enough out. They don't draw enough. There's a lot of literature, especially in the States, saying that there are some people, a good proportion that when they reach age 80, they have as much saved as they had when they retired. They live on the interest, and probably somebody will inherit that amount of money.

Rene Beaudry

But that's something we want to counter and give confidence to people that they can take their money out. The key variable is they don't know how long they're going to live, right? That's why they try not spend too much or take too much.

Caroline Blouin

Is that now the very top question you get asked as an Actuary in any social event, tell me, how long am I going to live?

Rene Beaudry

Well, we've passed that. People who know me know that they're not going to ask that question. But certainly when I was younger as an Actuary, that's something you would ask. I guess the question that's important is how they can draw their money and benefit the most from what I was just saying about the Canada pension plan and old age security.

Rene Beaudry

If you feel reassured that you'll get $30,000, say you started at 70, and you've got $300,000 in your RRSP. Sounds like a lot of money, but there's a lot of people in this country when they're 60, 65 that have accumulated significant amounts.

Rene Beaudry

The only financial literacy basically you need to have is to know how to divide by a number between one and 10. I'm being facetious, but I'll explain that. If you've got $300,000, you're 60. You divide that by 10, you know that you can take out $30,000 per year for the next 10 years. You know because you get a statement and you can go and find out that you're going to get the same amount from the CPP and old age security for the rest of your life. That's guaranteed, as I've explained before.

Caroline Blouin

Starting at age 70. What you're saying, just to recap, is from 60 to 70, you take a factor of 10, you take your savings at 60, divided by 10, and that covers you from 60 to 70. At 70, you rely on CPP and OAS.

Rene Beaudry

Yes that's the purest form. What that means is that you're putting yourself in almost the same situation as your sister in law, who's a nurse, and getting a defined benefit pension from a governed pension. Because most people, and people don't know that, but most people who have defined benefit programs don't have the room to contribute to their RRSPs. They're relying on their employer's pension. A lot of people, without knowing too much, they envy them. You can do the same thing. If you've got an RRSP and you've got these government plans that I was just discussing.

Rene Beaudry

The other thing that it does is that you were not an investment wizard while you were working, you're not going to become one at retirement. Do you really want to invest three, four hundred thousand dollars through your 70s and 80s? It causes a lot of anxiety. I'm not saying spend all your money and take it out of your RRSP. Obviously, the demonstration is in its purest form. I understand some people will want to keep some money aside. Well, that's fine. You do the maths and you keep 50, 60, 100,000 dollars in your RRSP.

Rene Beaudry

The other thing I find intriguing is people will come up for retirement, they'll reach 60 or whatever age, and they'll say, Oh, I don't have enough. They don't know how to reboot. They think that it's done. I should have saved more and I can't do anything.

Rene Beaudry

Well, if you go back to my example, if somebody has accumulated only $200,000, and that's where my joke about dividing by a number between one and 10 comes in. Well, obviously, if you divide $200,000 by 10, you get only $20,000. What you do is you basically work two years, part time, full time, doesn't matter.

Rene Beaudry

When you reach 62, you divide by eight, 70 minus 62. Suddenly, you don't get only 20, you get 25,000. If you wait another year, well, strangely enough, $200,000 divided by seven is 30,000. All you had to do is wait three years, probably save a little bit more as an aside. It's like wanting to stop smoking, and it's never too late. You just have to wait a little bit. That's why I'm saying these government plans are not used to their fullest, because once people understand what I just explained, if it's clear enough, everyone in this country can afford a good retirement.

Caroline Blouin

I love the optimism. Thank you. I hope that everybody is enjoying this very simple tip. You've done a fabulous job at making this all very simple. I want to go back to the accumulation phase. You talked about the astounding amount of capital that is in RRRSP in Canada. I remember reading way back a stats about how many billions of dollars just are left unmatched in group RRRSP plans that are offered by employers.

Caroline Blouin

By unmatched contributions, I mean they are available employer matching contributions through work, and employees are not contributing enough to receive the maximum employer match. What are your thoughts on that and what would you say?

Rene Beaudry

Well, it's almost going to be brutal. If there's a $20 bill on the sidewalk and you walk, you're going to bend over to pick it up, right? If your employer matches your contribution, it's almost an IQ test. Just contribute to get it. It's 100 % direct return. It's like somebody refusing a salary increase.

Caroline Blouin

We've covered so much grounds today, René. If you were to summarize our talk and you wanted the listeners to take away two or three key pieces from what we've talked about, what would they be?

Rene Beaudry

Oh, my God. Only three? Get informed.

Caroline Blouin

How do you get informed?

Rene Beaudry

Well, one of the envelopes that's the least open is the annual pension statement people get. There are two things there. Well, A, open the envelope.

Caroline Blouin

Or the email.

Rene Beaudry

Or the email. Read it. If you can't understand it, well, maybe it's not well written or well explained. Tell your employer that you want the information, but in a clearer way, after you invested half an hour trying to understand it.

Rene Beaudry

I'd say that maybe you should spend the same amount of time, once in your career, understanding your pension plan, the same amount of time as you're spending every year planning your two week vacation. This is going to be the second biggest asset you're going to have beside your house. It's worth maybe a few hours, once in your career.

Rene Beaudry

Another thing that I would advise people to do, and not enough do, is twice in your career, invest a bit of money and get good financial planning advice, independent financial planning advice. I have a lot of friends who do that for a living.

Rene Beaudry

You do that mid career and maybe 10 years before that magic date you think you're going to slow down because you don't want to mention the word retirement. Do that twice. The cost of a good planning like that for a couple with standard situations is probably not as costly as that one week of vacation for one person in Cuba.

Rene Beaudry

You do that twice during your career. It's a great investment. I'm going back to what I said before, it's reassuring. There's a plan. You know what the future is in store for you. You know that you have a government plan that's taking care of a good portion of your retirement. Simple as that.

Caroline Blouin

That's amazing. Are there any resources that you would like all of our listeners to know about today?

Rene Beaudry

Besides FSRA?

Caroline Blouin

Besides FSRA.

Rene Beaudry

Oh, my God.

Rene Beaudry

I don't, but I'll surprise you here. I think the pension authorities in this country underestimate how much good they can provide by just communicating clearly the things that we've just said. There's been a lot of time spent in this country supervising pension plans, making sure people were getting their pension and all this.

Rene Beaudry

I think we're seeing this change quite rapidly with what you are doing, what I'm seeing people do in our province. I'll stop there. I think FSRA, the Quebec pension board, and all the other pension authorities in different provinces should, and I've seen people start doing that, they should spend a lot more time communicating to people, telling them about what pensions are, simplifying things, making it digestible.

Caroline Blouin

Yes, digestible. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. It was so much fun. Great conversation. Lots of great insights and tips, and you really have a gift for communicating. Thank you very much, Rene.

Rene Beaudry

You're welcome.

Outro – Caroline Blouin

To our listeners, remember, if you liked today's podcast, please remember to share the podcast with friends and family. To learn more about today's topic, visit us at www.fsrao.ca/pensionawareness.